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Civil Rights & Abortion Discuss Lawsuit being filed over CA anti gay-therapy bill at the Political Forums; Interesting interview. I've long contended that the ground over which "experts" claim this is harmful is shaky, at best, and ...

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Old 10-23-2012, 02:55 PM
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Default Lawsuit being filed over CA anti gay-therapy bill

Interesting interview.

I've long contended that the ground over which "experts" claim this is harmful is shaky, at best, and ignores he scores of people who testify that it has worked for them. Banning forms of therapy is a terrible idea, because therapy is such a subjective and inexact realm to begin with. There's certainly a political interest for the gay lobby to oppose it though.

Therapist to challenge 'gay cure' ban – CNN Newsroom - CNN.com Blogs
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Old 10-23-2012, 03:21 PM
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Default Re: Lawsuit being filed over CA anti gay-therapy bill

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Originally Posted by Joe Shoe View Post
Interesting interview.

I've long contended that the ground over which "experts" claim this is harmful is shaky, at best, and ignores he scores of people who testify that it has worked for them. Banning forms of therapy is a terrible idea, because therapy is such a subjective and inexact realm to begin with. There's certainly a political interest for the gay lobby to oppose it though.

Therapist to challenge 'gay cure' ban – CNN Newsroom - CNN.com Blogs
Just out of curiosity...

Would you support 'therapy' designed to "turn straight kids gay"? You know, to "fix" them? Banning forms of therapy is bad, right?
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Old 10-23-2012, 03:27 PM
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Default Re: Lawsuit being filed over CA anti gay-therapy bill

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Just out of curiosity...

Would you support 'therapy' designed to "turn straight kids gay"? You know, to "fix" them? Banning forms of therapy is bad, right?
No because no one wants to do that. If there come up examples of straight kids who want to become gay, then it would definitely be something to consider. But I've never heard of such a case. If such cases did come along, I certainly wouldn't all out BAN something like that.
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Old 10-23-2012, 03:29 PM
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Default Re: Lawsuit being filed over CA anti gay-therapy bill

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No because no one wants to do that. If there come up examples of straight kids who want to become gay, then it would definitely be something to consider. But I've never heard of such a case. If such cases did come along, I certainly wouldn't all out BAN something like that.
Problem is - with those "therapies" - no one asks the kids what they want.
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Old 10-23-2012, 03:39 PM
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Default Re: Lawsuit being filed over CA anti gay-therapy bill

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No because no one wants to do that.
Do you know the mind of everyone?

Quote:
If there come up examples of straight kids who want to become gay, then it would definitely be something to consider. But I've never heard of such a case. If such cases did come along, I certainly wouldn't all out BAN something like that.
It doesn't matter what the kids want. All that matters is that the parents think being straight is 'wrong' and that the kid needs to be 'fixed'.
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Old 10-24-2012, 01:34 AM
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Default Re: Lawsuit being filed over CA anti gay-therapy bill

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Originally Posted by rivrrat View Post
Just out of curiosity...

Would you support 'therapy' designed to "turn straight kids gay"? You know, to "fix" them? Banning forms of therapy is bad, right?
Just as an aside, I expect that one day this will be possible through chemical treatment. A lot of behaviors are alterable, after all.

I also expect that such treatments will be illegal, even when the patient and family are in complete accord in their desire for them.
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Old 10-24-2012, 07:27 AM
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Default Re: Lawsuit being filed over CA anti gay-therapy bill

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Problem is - with those "therapies" - no one asks the kids what they want.
Why do you assume that? The therapist in the video indicated he did put thei kids first and that those against them seeking therapy did NOT.
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Old 10-24-2012, 07:36 AM
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Default Re: Lawsuit being filed over CA anti gay-therapy bill

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Problem is - with those "therapies" - no one asks the kids what they want.
They don't ask them that before giving them immunizations or sending them to school either. It's sort of what it is to be a child.
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Old 10-24-2012, 04:56 PM
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Post Re: Lawsuit being filed over CA anti gay-therapy bill

Quote:
Originally Posted by Joe Shoe View Post
Interesting interview.
I've long contended that the ground over which "experts" claim this is
harmful is shaky, at best, and ignores he scores of people who testify
that it has worked for them. Banning forms of therapy is a terrible
idea, because therapy is such a subjective and inexact realm to begin
with.
Your reply ignores that the “scores of people who testify” are in the
equivalent form of company advertising for their product.
When independent verification of the ex-gay claims are
attempted, these “scores of people” are glaringly missing.

As for the harm, that’s documented. It’s got better documentation
than claims of “scores of people”, as independent verification
follows up and identifies the damage that reparative therapy leaves
behind.

The thing that should burn people is that in real therapy, the
therapist cares about the impact upon the person. FOLLOWS UP on the
therapy.
With ex-gay therapy, the end goal is the political claim. When
the therapy crashes and burns and causes harm, they ignore the
problem.

A REAL therapy group would be EXTREMELY interested in preventing the
damage to the patients. But with reparative therapy, they refuse to
admit the harm they do.
A REAL therapy group would DOCUMENT and PUBLISH PAPERS on helping
people. But with reparative therapy, their announcements are made NOT
to psychological / psychiatric peers, but rather to the press / church
pulpits / anti-gay groups cause THAT is where their true interests
lie.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Joe Shoe View Post
There's certainly a political interest
for the gay lobby to oppose it though.
It’s the APA that opposes it.
The “gay lobby” is irrelevant on the issue.

And it would be more accurate to note that there’s certainly a
political interest for the anti-gay lobby to support
claims of ex-gay therapy success.
It is VERY interesting to note how these ex-gay “therapy” groups cross
the lines from simply helping people, to repeatedly openly attacking
gays who never asked for help. The obvious recognition is that the
ex-gay “therapy” is simply a tool to attack gays. NOT to supposedly
“help” them.


On the video itself, I think it would have been fascinating to have a
camera crew investigate his claims on the show. This pretense that
the abused child drives the request for therapy and not the parent
fails the reality test. This pretense that it’s all about treating
sexually / emotionally abused children fails the reality test.

Simple question: If this is TRULY JUST about providing therapy for
sexually / emotionally abused children, HOW does that violate the
Californian law???
Truthful answer: What he describes DOES NOT violate the California
law. What the ex-gay groups ACTUALLY DO violates the California
law.
If all he is doing is treating raped / sexually molested kids, THEN
THAT IS LEGAL. He tries to pretend that this law will harm raped /
sexually molested kids in that they can’t get treatment, when the
truth is that what it REALLY means is that raped / sexually molested
kids will not be FURTHER DAMAGED by some idiot who ignores valid
treatments for the REAL problem to instead proceed to attack the
victim’s sexual orientation identity.

There is no evidence regarding claims of rape / sexual molestation
causing homosexuality. That’s a stupid and outdated myth. The fact
that he tries to promulgate this stupidity only exemplifies how much
of a quack he is.
He claims that any good / competent therapist understands that
homosexuality can result when one is raped / sexually molested?
There is NO science behind that claim.

Another shining moment is when he misrepresented the statement of the
APA. The other woman involved read the statement regarding evidence
“to support the use of psychological interventions to change sexual
orientation”. He turned around and lied and pretended that was
substantiation of his claim that there was no evidence that SOCE
causes harm.
And THAT claim is also false. There IS evidence of reparative
therapy’s harm. Suicide. Depression.


Regarding his other claims in the video, his history proves him a liar.
He claims he never identified as gay. Lie.
“I am an ex-homosexually oriented man who provides
reorientation/change therapy for men who want this.”
David Pickup | Ex-Gay Watch

With the ex-gay groups, they are typically hush-hush as to the
actual content of their proclaimed “therapy” approach.
The reason is obvious. It often revolves around some nonsense like
beating a pillow and screaming about your mother / father or some
other inane nonsense.
This guy is no exception…
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Old 10-24-2012, 07:50 PM
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Default Re: Lawsuit being filed over CA anti gay-therapy bill

Maybe I'm mistaken, but it's my understanding that the therapy isn't "illegal" it's just no longer available for minors. That comports with a vast number of therapies dedicated to sexuality. I don't see why this should be any different.

A 15 year old isn't going to get a sex surrogate, why should he or she be subjected to therapy that has proven to fail more times than not and has actually been traced to causing ACTUAL mental illness.

Homosexuality is not a mental illness thus any "therapy" to try to get rid of it is not medically necessary.
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